Talk:Kidō (Ten-Tails)
Claiming that a kido can kill "With one shot." is not only completely over-powered, it is also 100% unrealistic in context of bleach canon. There are multiple examples of "One shot" techniques throughout bleach, including but not limited to; Soifon's shikai ability, Soifon's bankai, Yamamoto's 12 pillars technique, the Sokyoku, Hado 96, and hado 80-whatever. Each and every one was supposed to be capable of killing the target, no matter what, and every single one has been repelled. Therefore, calling a technique "Guaranteed" is completely unrealistic. If you don't change it back, I will. :Regardless, that isn't your call. This isn't your work, and what's more, you aren't even an Admin. This isn't your article, so you should just ignore it if you dislike it. You have no right to edit this page. Next time you do, I''' will personally ban you. --Seireitou-shishō (My True Identity | Talk to Me :3) 06:15, November 20, 2010 (UTC) No matter if this is his work or not, the wiki article on the subject is meant to be a seperate source from the actual source information. In any case, no matter what happens, you cannot be 100% certain about something, because even authors change. In this particular case, simply saying that it does such and such is completely irrelevant, even if it has been "Word of God"ed in. The most a wiki article(Since it is not a source article) can say is, "It has been stated that it is capable of destroying the target with one shot." Not "It CAN destroy the target with one shot." The difference is because of the wiki format. Since it's a wiki, it must be open to debate; if it were anything else, it such phraseology would be unnecessary. In addition, it should have a source to back up the statement, preferably with a link to the page in question, before it can be considered proper fanon. And finally, you do not lecture ME, boy. I've brought wikis 10 times the size of this one to their knees SOLO, and i have a team of 16 people that will back me up. Learn to use politics in your responses. In this case, Instead of saying "If you do this again, i ban j00", you would say, "Please do not re-instate your change, or we(WE) will be forced to take punitive action." See? If you act superior, and you ARE superior, then people will treat you as being superior. If you ARE superior, but you lower yourself to the level of the people attacking you, you'll just get kicked around a lot. Capice? Capice. I think it's worth mentioning that as we are the administration of the wiki, we decide the rules. --'''User:Thepantheon 06:29, November 20, 2010 (UTC) Heh Wow, tough guy. I bet you told that same thing to your boyfriend. I'm gonna take a note from Cy-chan's old replies. :No matter if this is his work or not, the wiki article on the subject is meant to be a seperate source from the actual source information. In any case, no matter what happens, you cannot be 100% certain about something, because even authors change. It may not make much sense to someone of your ludicrousness, but this is a wikia in which we respect eachother's ideas. When RPing with one's own universe, it can work in any way they wish, so long as their partners comply. Simple: you don't like their ideas, don't bother with them :In this particular case, simply saying that it does such and such is completely irrelevant, even if it has been "Word of God"ed in. The most a wiki article(Since it is not a source article) can say is, "It has been stated that it is capable of destroying the target with one shot." Not "It CAN destroy the target with one shot." Just because something says it's meant to destroy something in one shot, doesn't mean it will. It's a general statement, but it doesn't mean it can't be beat. After all, as you said, Soifon's Shikai is meant to autokill, but as you said, doesn't normally do it. We didn't even know a high enough spiritual pressure could cause the technique to fail until Aizen showed us that. Therefore, you hold no arguement here. :The difference is because of the wiki format. Since it's a wiki, it must be open to debate; if it were anything else, it such phraseology would be unnecessary. Debate, yes. However, you can't edit other articles when they are fanwork. We are not a canon site, meaning you can't control the ideas of others. :In addition, it should have a source to back up the statement, preferably with a link to the page in question, before it can be considered proper fanon. LOL, trying to feel important? :And finally, you do not lecture ME, boy. I've brought wikis 10 times the size of this one to their knees SOLO, and i have a team of 16 people that will back me up. Learn to use politics in your responses. In this case, Instead of saying "If you do this again, i ban j00", you would say, "Please do not re-instate your change, or we(WE) will be forced to take punitive action." ROFL, BUTTHURT TROLL :See? If you act superior, and you ARE superior, then people will treat you as being superior. If you ARE superior, but you lower yourself to the level of the people attacking you, you'll just get kicked around a lot. I'm this wikia's Head Admin, and this wikia has ran perfectly fine under my administration. You do well to recognize. :Capice? Capice. It's Capicé, dumbass. --Seireitou-shishō (My True Identity | Talk to Me :3) 06:36, November 20, 2010 (UTC) Since the rest of your response was just you being, as you put it, "buthurt", i'll just respond to the part that was relevent to the debate. Just '''because' something says it's meant to destroy something in one shot, doesn't mean it will. It's a general statement, but it doesn't mean it can't be beat. After all, as you said, Soifon's Shikai is meant to autokill, but as you said, doesn't normally do it. We didn't even know a high enough spiritual pressure could cause the technique to fail until Aizen showed us that. Therefore, you hold no arguement here. '' This is EXACTLY what i was trying to say, which is why the way in which a wiki is phrased is so important. Because we dont KNOW if it can 'autokill', we cant SAY that it can 'autokill'. We can infer it, but we cant say it outright. Perhaps my edit was too far in the opposite direction, but the intent was there; to show that uncertainty that must be displayed by all high quality wikis. As for the advice bit, it's seriously just advice. Well, the threat was a threat. But the advice was advice, from over five years of experience with close contact with administrators and moderators of a popular MMO. I know what works and what doesn't; You can be as informal as you like in talking to people, but you have to be REALLY careful with threatening people, or they'll come down on you like a ton of bricks. The less formal an admin is, the less powerful they are in the eyes of the users, and the less memorable they are in the long-term. I'm not just talking out of my ass, either; i've seen one guy last for 5 years, and he lasted 3 years before that, just because he's got good rep skills. Others disappear in weeks. So...yeah. Just keep that in mind. Oh, one thing i forgot; This is a wiki for the CATAGORIZATION of fan materials. That doesn't mean it's exempt from anything any other wiki has to do. Sure, if there's a "Fanfic-Canon"(like, inside the fanfic...? get what i mean? Neh.) guide, it can say stuff like that, but because none of us actually are living inside the world in question,we can't say without a doubt that anything is certain. So in the wiki, we shouldn't write that way. If it IS taken directly from "Fanfic-Canon", meaning any information in it is solid as far as the characters in the fanfic are concerned, then it should have a disclaimer of such at the beginning of the page, to prevent other unsuspecting philanthropists from getting their ass handed to them by mistake. On the topic of not knowing if something can autokill, as he is the author he is allowed to say definitively whether it can, and doesn't need to infer, I believe. Also, please sign your posts on talk pages using four tildes. --'User:Thepantheon 07:06, November 20, 2010 (UTC)' Regardless of intent, you still hold no authority here. If you wanted to pass on advice, you should have merely posted it here, and I would have perfectly responded in a calm way. However, when the final statement ends up being arrogant like "If you don't change it, I will", then I tend to grow annoyed. Secondly, I've been working on multiple wikias for a while now, and right now, I see you as nothing more than a n00b, so it is you that shouldn't be lecturing me. And seriously? You keep track of people that long? Dude, shut down the computer, climb out the basement, and do something. Seriously. And, last time I checked, I didn't threaten you whatsoever. I was merely humoring your attempt at sounding like a bigshot. ON THE INTERNET, of all places. That deserves a lulz. Besides, who the hell are you to tell me, and by extension, the entire staff, how to run a wikia? And what it should be used for? All I've heard from you is "lol, I have sixteen other losers that will quickly come to my aid on THE INTERNETZ. HURP DERP." I'm supposed to take your word for it? Look, let me make this perfectly simple. Either you can stay, make your own work, not edit other work, and we'll all be happy, or you can just leave, and we'll still be happy. Your call, dude. --Seireitou-shishō (My True Identity | Talk to Me :3) 07:09, November 20, 2010 (UTC) Ah, it seems like we had a post conflict. This is the response to Thepantheon, whose response was calm and mediated. I like calm and mediated, it helps things stay...calm and mediated. In that case, it should contain a disclaimer at the beginning of the article, something along the lines of; The following article is accurate up to the current data in the ten tails continuity. Unless you know exactly what you're talking about, editing by non ten-tails canon authors is discouraged. I dont know quite how to write it, that doesn't sound quite right to me. But better than nothing. Another alternative is to change the writing to something like this(just an approximation); "An extremely powerful kido spell; It's been stated by 10-tails(author) that it is capable of killing anything in one use." That allows for continuity and also not to be too full of itself. DemiserofD 07:19, November 20, 2010 (UTC) :We don't need disclaimers. In case it eluded your eyes, that's why we have the Property tag at the top of the page. It says "This article, Kidō (Ten-Tails), is property of Ten Tailed Fox." It doesn't need further disclaimers. And also, was that so hard? You perfectly explained to me the advice you wished to make clear. I'll make sure Ten reads over the advice for the Kidō itself. --Seireitou-shishō (My True Identity | Talk to Me :3) 07:28, November 20, 2010 (UTC) To:Seireitou-shishō I've personally run three seperate wiki's so far, so i do have some experience with this whole thing. In addition to that, it doens't matter that we're on the internet; This is your turf, so you treat it like it was your mothers womb. If you dont treat it seriously, then nobody else will treat is seriously. And you end up with just another wretched hive of scum and villainy. Your constant insulting of me and my attempts to be at least mildly civil are not appreciated. You taking my comment on having people to back me up is just silly; We're on the internet "dude", learn to relax. In any case, my prior comments still stand; It is insufficient as it currently stands. If it's not changed, it will just continue to suck for years until you finally ragequit and someone else steps up and fixes all the problems you've left behind. :Last time I recall, telling me not to lecture you and threatening to "drop this wikia down to its knees", isn't civil in the least. You started this flame war, so don't try to turn it around. I've run three wikia in count myself, along with serving on administration teams in two others. I know how things should be run, so it gets alittle annoying when some random dude shows up and tells me how things should be run. I didn't say don't treat it seriously, but you're literally treating it like it's so important. It's a fan wikia, meant for people to join together and write their perspectives on the anime/manga they chose. Telling me you have a back-up team for "bringing down wikia to their knees" makes me laugh at you, because it tells me you have no other way to spend your days other than stalking wikias to mke sure they fit your standard. Next, telling me it "sucks", is your opinion. It doesn't mean shit if Ten likes his work, and the same for me. If you stop and worry about every person who says it sucks, then it's no different than succumbing to peer pressure. So, I see no point in continuing this pointless discussion, so I'll end it with this: whether you wanna stay or not is up to you, but do not tell me how to run things. --Seireitou-shishō (My True Identity | Talk to Me :3) 07:28, November 20, 2010 (UTC) Last time I recall, telling me not to lecture you and threatening to "drop this wikia down to its knees", isn't civil in the least. You started this flame war, so don't try to turn it around. I've run three wikia in count myself, along with serving on administration teams in two others. I know how things should be run, so it gets alittle annoying when some random dude shows up and tells me how things should be run. I didn't say don't treat it seriously, but you're literally treating it like it's so important. It's a fan wikia, meant for people to join together and write their perspectives on the anime/manga they chose. Telling me you have a back-up team for "bringing down wikia to their knees" makes me laugh at you, because it tells me you have no other way to spend your days other than stalking wikias to mke sure they fit your standard. Next, telling me it "sucks", is '''your opinion'. It doesn't mean shit if Ten likes his work, and the same for me. If you stop and worry about every person who says it sucks, then it's no different than succumbing to peer pressure. So, I see no point in continuing this pointless discussion, so I'll end it with this: whether you wanna stay or not is up to you, but do not tell me how to run things'' And yet, i seem to recall you threatening a ban after i criticized your(the wikis) work. Sounds to me like you started the whole 'flame war', hmmm? Threatening to get rid of people that disagree with you sure sounds...nasty, dont you think? As for quality, the reason i tell you these things is because i can recognize the difference between this wiki and a canon wiki. And that is a problem. If everything was executed properly, this wiki should be virtually identical to the canon wiki...except for containing different data. And i have read the entire canon wiki. In other words, when i say "It sucks", i'm not being arbitrary, i'm basing it on principles used by thousands of readers of Bleach with great success, and you're still taking it as criticism while i'm just trying to ram the fact that i'm trying to help into your head! In other words, if you're going to completely change the style in which something is written, you might as well call it something else entirely. Call it "Detergent: A collection of loose references to Bleach!". But if you're going to call it a fan wiki, then there are standards it has to stand up to. THAT is what i've been trying to say and help with here. And you're still taking it as a deliberate insult. What i would personally like as the best result of this argument? Is if you could be the better man. If you could take my suggestions, and think about them, and incorperate them, and not argue with the "non-admin weakling that i dont have to listen to." I would LOVE it if you could be better than me, because it would mean the wiki would be better than me, and be above my criticism. Capice? DemiserofD 07:41, November 20, 2010 (UTC) In any case, i've had enough of arguing with you. I tried to help, and you spat in my face. Adiós DemiserofD 07:44, November 20, 2010 (UTC) Look, I said I was done with this arguement, but it seems like you don't get it, so I'll need to be more blunt. A fan wikia can incorperate any ideas that has revelance to Bleach, in which the authors sees this from their own interpretation and point-of-view. Telling me, and the wikia by extension, how things should work, is forcing your views on others, which completely goes against the purpose of personal fanfictions and fanons. I only threatened you with a ban because 1.) You editted someone else's article, which is already an offense on this site. And 2.) Because you are trying to force your views on others, which is the leading cause of almost all wars in the world. Need I bring up Hitler? Did you write Bleach? Are you Kubo? I don't think so. So don't tell me how Blech works, when you didn't write it. Your view on Bleach is no better than mine, because we're both fans, and not the author. And lastly, I never once said I wouldn't think over your "advice". But, when you tell me said advice in a way that makes you seem superior to me, I tend to not listen. It's human nature, and it's hypocritical on your part, seeing as you were faulting me for "acting superior." You don't know me at all, and I don't know you either. So, neither of us can tell the other that "we're superior." However, as you said, this wikia is my turf, and therefore, my way (and the way of the current administration) is the way we go with, or you need to find elsewhere to write bleach fanwork. Now, I'm sick of this arguement, as now you are merely attempting to rile me up. And I have classes to teach tomorrow morning, so, I'm going to repest myself once more. You wanna stay here, go ahead. Give your advice with reasonable approaches, and write your own work. But do not attempt to force your view of Bleach, or even how a wikia should work, on me or the administration, because it will go disregarded. If it wasn't meant to be forced upon, then you lack proper wording. And since you seem to be leaving, feeling butthurt obviously, have fun trying to stalk wikias with your internet posse. --Seireitou-shishō (My True Identity | Talk to Me :3) 07:53, November 20, 2010 (UTC) Wow, these guys dont get out much, do they? You guys are both idiots, one for thinking threats will work on the internet, and one for thinking that this is your "turf" on the internet. Get over yourselves, idiots, the internet is FREE. As far as this idiotic debate goes, seems to me like this wiki is siding with one side...isn't that sorta against the nature of a 'wiki'? If someone wants to go make something where their word is gods, they can go do that, super easy. A wiki's supposed to be editable by anyone for a reason, and sayin that something can kill anything in one shot is like saying that a nuclear bomb can destroy the universe; IE, it has absolutely no sense of scale, + nobody's going to treat anything else on the page like shit if it's just someone copypasting the real list and sticking their own stupid stuff in. Wow, i'm actually agreeing with one of the idiots, i wanna shoot myself now. wtf, i'll finish. since wikis are freely editable, they shouldn't pander to one side, saying something as bludnt ans 'omg 1-shot kill' is stupid. It should be just like any other technique that people have said can kill anything, it should be described as what it does, and any direct damage stats should be entered as quotes. uhh...like, "they get eaten by a giant ridicululous energy shark thing, hitting them for massive damage. ten tails said that "this thing can kill anything with one shot!" Woah, that's powerful." peace. Neat I have to give you praise for the incantation you crafted for Bakudo 90# - I found it to be really good and it sounded like an actual Kido Incantation :) Master N 02:57, July 2, 2011 (UTC)﻿